Comments on Nothing to see here. Move Along.: Mistake #41 All-Girl Trips

A guy really can't save you if you're taking a tri...

2009-04-05T22:07:00.000-07:00

A guy really can't save you if you're taking a trip anywhere potentially dangerous (unless he has 'special skills'). So, just use your brain when you're deciding where to take your vacation. As far as opting for an all girl trip--why not? Don't assume that every activity is about getting married. IF the guy is fun though, sure, why not take him?--as long as the other girls are okay with it AND the vacation isn't specifically deemed ALL-GIRL. But if he's annoying or some player OR if any of the other girls can't be themselves around a guy, don't do it. It'll ruin the fun.

True story, I had to kiss a taxi driver in Cancun ...

2009-04-04T16:25:00.000-07:00

True story, I had to kiss a taxi driver in Cancun after he saved my friend from being thrown in jail after she broke something at the market and refused to pay their jacked up price.

I'm pretty sure that girls can handle a trip witho...

2009-04-04T00:39:00.000-07:00

I'm pretty sure that girls can handle a trip without being kidnapped, raped, or murdered (despite your Hollywood allusions). If you're basing your argument solely on popular thrillers, you might also want to consider every horror movie where the presence of some guy friends isn't enough to keep all but a few principal characters from being killed. Just saying.

Oh, you're so wrong 8:41PM anonymous! Mormon dude...

2009-04-01T21:31:00.000-07:00

Oh, you're so wrong 8:41PM anonymous!

Mormon dudes aren't busy - they live in their parents basement and play video games! They don't keep schedules, and if they didn't the schedules would be wide open becasue they are balding, uneducated, and overweight!

Mormon girls don't want to date them - too good for them! GIRL POWER!

Ridiculous.

I am all about the coed vacation (prefer it actual...

2009-04-01T20:41:00.000-07:00

I am all about the coed vacation (prefer it actually), but I've found it's often hard to get the guys to actually commit to going. I currently have a trip planned to Mexico with 8 girls and we've invited probably 20 different guys to go and gotten only lame responses in return about needing to work, too busy, can't commit that far in advance, and an endless number of other excuses. Plus there is the hassle of managing the male egos if you don't have the right mix of people which makes the vacation a little less of a vacation. It's just easier to stick with the girls and be guaranteed a good time.

P.P. Do you truly believe your sexist remarks? Cla...

2009-04-01T19:24:00.000-07:00

P.P. Do you truly believe your sexist remarks? Claiming your beliefs as part of the "priesthood" is an affront to all LDS members, the Gospel, and in my opinion God. You are perpetuating the worst parts of humanity. Please open a book, any book and read it.

I would have to disagree with you on this subject-...

2009-03-31T20:35:00.000-07:00

I would have to disagree with you on this subject- I have a wonderful 'girls trip' planned for May- there are 10 girls going. We are going on a 10 day cruise to the Caribbean- I have held off on taking this trip several times in hopes of going with some great guy. But guys don't ask girls out let alone go on a trip with them and I am sick of waiting- I am very excited to take this trip with the 'girls' and think it will be a great vacation. I have since met a wonderful guy after booking our trip- yes I will miss him, yes I would love him to go but he is excited for my to go have a good time with my friends.

You know what I think my favorite part about readi...

2009-03-30T16:02:00.000-07:00

You know what I think my favorite part about reading this blog is? That would be some reader's complete inability to appreciate satire.

While clearly the author has a--shall we say pronounced?--viewpoint, one has to admit not only the base truths found within his arguments, but admire the forthrightness with which the opinions are conveyed. Of course the fact that he is anonymous takes away a little bit of the moxie.

Finally commenting on this specific topic:
Both sides of the argument have merits in this case. On the one hand I would much rather go on a vacation that has both guys and girls going along. It certainly makes backpacking across Europe far more entertaining and the group balanced. And I don't discount the "safe" bit. While I admit to being rather independent, I'm not going to lie I love that I can call a guy in my ward and he can walk me down from campus when it's late. Even though I don't like to ask for help, sometimes I have to admit that other people can do things that I can't. And I love that I can take a friend (whether guy or girl is immaterial) with me who is totally at home in a foreign culture. If it's a guy that can protect and give blessings if needed, not to mention cuddle with, all the better.

On the other hand. I can appreciate the need for girls only and guys only trips. I like to hang out with my girl friends to talk about boys--and as someone already pointed out--it's hard to talk about boys when they are there. I further agree with this portion of a comment that was already made:
"...because sometimes it's just nice to get away and be silly with other girls without the pressure of trying to impress someone. It doesn't mean that we are going out clubbing or flaunting ourselves to other guys, it just means we can finally go to all of our broadway shows, chick-flicks, get mani's and pedi's together, and not have some guy complaining that we are being girls. I know several guys who go on the "all guys" week long camping trips. Good for them! Let them have their guy bonding moments because sometimes they just need to be rugged and be a total guy and not have to worry about offending a lady. NO guy wants a needy woman...and NO woman wants a needy man."

I hope you're able to overcome your unChristlike a...

2009-03-30T15:24:00.000-07:00

I hope you're able to overcome your unChristlike attitude.

For f***'s sake.I hope I never meet you, ever, bec...

2009-03-30T12:35:00.000-07:00

For f***'s sake.

I hope I never meet you, ever, because I don't think I'd be able to resist a kick to your chin.
I don't like it when guys like you take us girls for granted.

And what active steps has it taken to acheive any ...

2009-03-30T07:19:00.000-07:00

And what active steps has it taken to acheive any of that? Have they raised awareness of Amina and Sarah? (Two teen girls in Texas who were murdered for dating non-muslim boys, their father is the prime suspect, and still at large) http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=24329

How about a case in Dearborne Michigan last year where a woman was sexually assaulted in her apartment complex hallway for 45 minutes while neighbors heard the screaming, some entered and exited their apartments, and nobody called the police?

I've never heard or seen any of these types of things mentioned by NOW or any of their spokes(wo)men, They ignore the populations that commit these things in America, rage against it outside of the US, and "urge our leaders to take action against such injustice against women" but refuse to raise their voice here because they don't want to offend any religion, ethnic, or political group that votes for the Democratic Party causes. They throw women in America under the bus in exchange for the political power they can garner through lobbyists and feel-good causes.

For Morguerat, "Looking at NOW for instance, it wa...

2009-03-30T06:30:00.000-07:00

For Morguerat,

"Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc."

It is true that the NOW is active on a wide range of issues, but your statement is inaccurate. Here are some goals taken from the "2009 agenda" page of NOW's website (http://www.now.org/issues/agenda2009.html):

* Pass the International Violence Against Women Act (IVAWA), which provides an opportunity for the United States to be a leader in preventing violence against women around the world.

* Provide asylum rights for women to protect them from violence and end "honor killings," forced marriages, genital mutilation, femicide, child marriages, mass rape as a weapon in armed conflict, and other atrocities.

Continuing my thoughts from March 25, 10:25pmWhile...

2009-03-29T11:03:00.000-07:00

Continuing my thoughts from March 25, 10:25pm

While I can't presume to say what the OP's intentions were with the post, I don't think it was to imply that women are either incapable of traveling by themselves or that they should never go on all girl trips, but rather that both LDS men and women would benefit from traveling together.

I find that girls that are capable of planning and carrying out a serious trip are to be admired. At the same time, I find it perturbing that mormon women find all kinds of obstacles to traveling with men. "Avoid the appearance of evil" - more like avoiding meaningful social interaction that might actually help you become a mature adult.

I've traveled mutiple countries for extended periods of time with women, shared rooms, beds, amazing experiences and great memories. These women were independent, usually continued traveling after we parted ways, and were fully capable of the same trip without a guy. That said, its always more fun, safe, and interesting. Unfortunately I've never been able to get an LDS girl to go on such a trip. Lack of passports, desire, "what would my parents think", and sundry other reasons have been given. Like another poster said, there doesn't have to be any interest in the guy (or the guy for the girl) beyond friendship to have a great time traveling, and the benefits to both parties are numerous.

I only post this because there is in my opinion, a huge shortage of adventurous, well rounded mature LDS women AND men. IMNSHO this stems from a lack of adult interaction, narrow world views (especially for ya'll that have spent your entire lives in Utah). Get out and travel.

And in a preemptive response to those who assume all men who enjoy this blog live in their parent's basement, I've got a post-graduate education, a passport full of stamps, and a healthy social life which doesn't revolve around FHE.

As I said, I'm very pro-woman, but I oppose the la...

2009-03-29T07:34:00.000-07:00

As I said, I'm very pro-woman, but I oppose the label "feminist" because of the connotations it's picked up.

Regarding Ralph: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d82WKtGjJBA

I thought it made him an acceptable protest vote in a situation where I couldn't see a "lesser evil"

In my experience, all-girl trips materialize when ...

2009-03-28T23:22:00.000-07:00

In my experience, all-girl trips materialize when the men have disappeared. If there are men we are dating or men who are actually making the effort to date AT ALL, we don't head out of town without them.

"Using the F-word to describe ANYTHING or ANYONE a...

2009-03-28T18:15:00.000-07:00

"Using the F-word to describe ANYTHING or ANYONE also carries the decades of man-hate from primarily man-hating lesbians that carried the movement forward."

Wow, I didn't realize I had the lesbians to thank for so much! Although, I think the thousands of heterosexual women who participated will be a tad disappointed that they don't get any credit.

"While the definition of feminism is equality, and I'm all for that. In the church, feminism is a dirty word."

Agreed. But that doesn't mean it should be.

"Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc."

And this was when I decided that we don't actually need to be arguing this. Because to me that IS the feminist cause. Fortunately you're right that in most legal respects women and men are said to be equal. But until we actually deal with the social injustices and eliminate the appalling violence that continues to go on against women, I don't think we can really claim full equality. But I guess I don't mind if you don't want to call yourself a feminist. I understand that it is a loaded title, but I do hope that you won't jump to conclusions about those who do use it, because it sounds to me like in the end we kind of have the same opinion. Well, except about Nader :)

Ever think it's a money issue? Or maybe vacations ...

2009-03-28T15:18:00.000-07:00

Ever think it's a money issue? Or maybe vacations are where girls go to look like crap, and all they want is their girl friends there with them.

"I will always expect the men of my faith to respe...

2009-03-28T06:10:00.000-07:00

"I will always expect the men of my faith to respect such boundaries as they are supposed to share them."

As it should be.

While the definition of feminism is equality, and I'm all for that. In the church, feminism is a dirty word. Looking at NOW for instance, it wants very little to do with actually helping women (or else it would be up in arms over islam and it's treatment of women, condoning wife-beating as a punishment, encouraging FGM (aka female circumcision), "honor" killings for perceived slights against the family's honor, etc etc.

As I said, I'm pro-woman. Using the F-word to describe ANYTHING or ANYONE also carries the decades of man-hate from primarily man-hating lesbians that carried the movement forward. 200 years ago in America women were little better than property, being unable to own land, run businesses, vote, travel alone(for the most part), inherit, etc etc.

All of that has changed, and women have all the same legal rights as men, as well as preference in MANY areas, like during a divorce, property distribution, and custody of children. Female law enforcers are able to escalate threats of violence and shoot suspects with much less scrutiny (a large male suspect who approaches a female officer threateningly can be shot, and she would have a much more valid claim to feeling like her life was in danger as justification for the shooting). In domestic disputes and awarding of PFA's or Restraining Orders, the courts are designed to favor women. They don't have to sign up for the selective service. I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong, but recognize that women have far more legal protections than men, and even the sole remaining "chivalry" law in the military (no women in combat jobs) has largely disappeared with the asymmetrical style of combat now seen in Iraq and Afganistan where there are no front lines to "protect" female soldiers from.

AND at the same time, they have all of the same legal and most of the social rights of men (yeah, you still get called a slut if you sleep around, while it's expected of -non-mormon- men). All that's really left to the feminist movement is women who are angry at men, oh and rampant hypocrisy in their treatment of vice-presidential candidates just because she's a Republican. (and surprise surprise, I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Ralph Nader because of a Sesame Street skit 20 years ago, which qualified him more than either of the other two jerks that were available from the big 2.)

All that's really left to the feminist movement IS taking things away from men, because they've gotten everything else that was unequal.

"Yes, you should absolutely expect people to respe...

2009-03-27T23:42:00.000-07:00

"Yes, you should absolutely expect people to respect your boundaries, sexual and otherwise, but understand that realistically, it's probably not going to happen."

I will always expect the men of my faith to respect such boundaries as they are supposed to share them.

And now, lets talk about the Mormon version of the f word. Feminist. I don't expect this random comment on a satire blog to have much of an impact on you, but since you brought it up I'm going to go ahead and say that I hope you will re-examine your views on women vs. feminism. So that we don't have to argue about the definition of feminism I looked it up on wikipedia: "Feminism is the belief that women should have equal political, social, sexual, intellectual and economic rights to men."

That's it. If you believe that women should have the same fundamental rights as men, then I have to tell you, you are a feminist. But don't worry, because it works both ways! Men need to have the same fundamental rights as women. Misandry and Misogyny are equally wrong, but I think we need to be honest in looking at which is currently having the bigger impact on our society, both locally and globally. We don't have to exchange one oppression for the other, and if true equality is ever going to be achievied between the sexes it has to come from both sides. /soapbox

Lisa, you're ridiculous. I'm sure all those Itali...

2009-03-27T22:58:00.000-07:00

Lisa, you're ridiculous.

I'm sure all those Italians you met at the club can't wait to treasure you for eternity. Or, at least until they get you in the sack.

Hannah, I'm a single father raising 3 beautiful da...

2009-03-27T22:52:00.000-07:00

Hannah,

I'm a single father raising 3 beautiful daughters to be strong independent women. I'm anti-feminism, but pro-woman (most feminist thought is female empowerment at the expense of males, or misandry). I gave two examples that happened to one friend, I have dozens of other examples from dozens of other friends. I spent a year in Kuwait in the army, while there I traveled to Egypt, and the Holy Land (Jordan, and Israel). By and large, my observations have held up and been confirmed by every American woman I've talked to who has gone abroad. Not so much with the European women I talk to, but I'm not sure if they're more accepting of the occasional feel, or if it's just the perception that American women are easy that sets them against you like hounds after a hare. I suspect it's a combination.

So to answer your question, Yes, you should absolutely expect people to respect your boundaries, sexual and otherwise, but understand that realistically, it's probably not going to happen.

Honey, you are an idiot. You have no idea what you...

2009-03-27T22:06:00.000-07:00

Honey, you are an idiot. You have no idea what you're talking about. 1. Women have jobs as equally important and time consuming as yours. 2. When we go on vacation...we don't want to see you. We see you on Sunday and we know your crap already. We don't want to vacation with it.

Let me just fill you in. Mormon men think they are God's gift to the universe. Italian men know that women are God's gift to the universe. Not just the blonds and the stick figures but every woman, no matter what her age, marital status, hair color.

For someone trying to be the Mormon version of “He’s just Not that Into You…” and dispense dating advise…maybe you should actually learn about women first before you flap at the mouth.

Maybe you should go to Italy and take lessons.

I was just introduced to your blog. After a brief ...

2009-03-27T21:06:00.000-07:00

I was just introduced to your blog. After a brief skimming of your views, I have the following to offer:

You're a misogynistic ass.

Um...do only "Mormon" girls go on "all girls" trip...

2009-03-27T20:22:00.000-07:00

Um...do only "Mormon" girls go on "all girls" trips? Last I checked, girls of every religion go on all girls trips because sometimes it's just nice to get away and be silly with other girls without the pressure of trying to impress someone. It doesn't mean that we are going out clubbing or flaunting ourselves to other guys, it just means we can finally go to all of our broadway shows, chick-flicks, get mani's and pedi's together, and not have some guy complaining that we are being, heaven forbid, "GIRLS!!". I know SEVERAL guys who go on the "all guys" week long camping trips. I could care less! Good for them! Let them have their guy bonding moments because sometimes they just need to be rugged and be a total guy and not have to worry about offending a lady. NO guy wants a needy woman...and NO woman wants a needy man. Maybe you should be a little less "needy" and go on an all guys trip! P.S. from the sound of your sensitivity towards being left out, I'm not sure you could save me if I was in trouble...I need a MAN not a boy!

Heather you have continually asked the wrong peopl...

2009-03-27T18:42:00.000-07:00

Heather you have continually asked the wrong people...an African safari sounds fantastic...I'm pretty sure I'd need my wife's permission lol...jk...